I love Eckhart-- still think he was brutally robbed an Oscar nom for Thank You For Smoking. In fact, I dig his work so much that I just rented the lackluster straight-to-DVD release Meet Bill. Hey-- you take the good with the bad but as predicted, he's actually good in it.

However, I have to agree with you on Dent-- I'm not entirely sure he's dead and tried hinting about his fate in my review without coming right out and naming names.

Ledger probably will receive a nomination and he was brilliant but my choice so far this year is still Colin Farrell for either In Bruges or Cassandra's Dream. Re: Ledger's Joker-- he elevated the material very well (love his musical voice, especially in Casanova) but it was an underwritten role.

This was especially apparent having viewed Burton's original '89 movie on Wednesday night, two days after seeing the newest Joker when I started to realize how much better Nicholson's insane dialogue was. Examples: "Antoine got a little hot under the collar." "Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?" "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" And--as a woman-- my personal favorite occurs when he admires himself in the mirror and Palance's bimbo he's cheating with tells him, "You look fine, Jack." In response, Jack turns, gives her a dead stare and states, "I didn't ask."

Okay, but back to The Dark Knight:
Was anyone else as bothered as I was with the scene between Dent and The Joker in the hospital? It's almost as though something was left on the cutting room floor. Let's recap: they chat, there's a coin toss, and if I remember accurately, the next thing we see is The Joker using the hand sanitizer! Some of the editing was sloppy but that may have been to try and prevent the film from becoming even longer. Any other ideas?

However, this being said-- wow, those action scenes-- and the one in particular on the street with helicopters, trucks, SWAT teams, etc! So in-freaking-credible that it made me want to see the whole thing again... but this time in IMAX. Somebody fire up the Batmobile...

dent's purpose in TDK was as simple as flipping a coin. for joker's flip, it determined whether joker would live or not. win or lose, dent believed in 50/50. batman didn't. that's why, at the end, dent himself became the coin, falling to his death and landing bad-face up. batman turning him over to the good-face symbolizes his belief against anarchic justice, and his own resolve to return to his dark image for the sake of preserving dent's healthier legacy. to drag dent on would be too tiresome- in TDK he was merely joker's wildcard, and the coinflip between good and evil.

Great use of symbolism there, Jim!

10/10, this movie is nearly perfect! The only thing is that it felt tooo short, even at 2 1/2 hours. So I agree with Colin in some respect. I think this really should've been 2 different movie allowing for more character development, ending where Rachel dies because they really didn't show Batman mourning and didn't express his sadness in the best way (to shorten runtime).
I agree with Jen, Heath's role was underwritten, so much so that I was left wanting more! But I don't agree with Jen's opinion about Nicholson being a better Joker, there is no comparison. They were playing 2 different characters, Nolan tried to do something different with the Joker, a darker more fiendishly evil character. But I liked Nolan's character better and if either of these actors had played it it would've been great (20 years ago for Nicholson :P).

That leave's the arc open for the next sequel, why exploiting two characters if you can use one an introduce the next on the line.

I wrote some things down at McDonalds but can't seem to find that napkin, I'll give you guys my thoughts tomorrow.
But how is anyone going to follow up Heath's joker? And how will they explain the change of character?
I didn't mind changing Rachel, Maggie is an immediate improvement from Katie, Katie was lame in the last one. But if they change Joker we will need an explanation! And they better have 2 face too, he wasn't badass enough, he has to become darker and more maniacal.

When you mentioned bad use of a gadget in your original review, I thought you were talking about the Sky Hook, which I found pretty goofy. I had no problem with the sonar climax. I agree there was a little too much story crammed into the 2 and a half hours. A lot of the scenes seemed rushed and short, especially the interaction between Bruce and Alfred. However, unlike a complete chaotic mess like Spiderman 3, I felt the story was cohesive and flowed very well. Overall, it is full of greatness, but falls short of being a masterpeice.

The SWAT car/BatPod/Helicopter/Semi truck chase scene was one of the best set pieces I have ever seen.

I didn't like how they just left The Joker just hanging from wire on the building. Perhaps there was more, but with Heath Ledger's passing, they had to cut some? Who knows.

I also read somewhere that Christian Bale may not make a return as Batman, so maybe this ending (With Harvey) was a good way to end it "all".

My problem with the cell phone lidar scene was that I couldn't tell what the hell was going on--and frankly, I'm not sure Nolan could, either.

my only problem was also two-face, I was really hoping for him to be the villan in the third movie. He had minimal screen time and that was a big dissapointment for me, but whatever it still was one of the greatest movies ever made.

I like to think that Two-Face will return in a big way in the next film, but if not I would also love to see Nolan introduce us to some villains who haven't yet been seen on the big screen. I can only hope they don't handle him in film 3 the same way they did with Scarecrow in this film - for me his being there but sticking around was the biggest mistake of the film. It seems pretty possible that they will manipulate the fact that Batman pretty much left it with Gordon to cover up Two-face, keeping Harvey Dent as a figurehead for the people as the white knight to inspire goodness while Batman takes the heat, so the Harvey Dent funeral may in fact not indicate that Two-Face is really gone. That being said, 2 fake deaths in one movie is too much, so that might not be the case.

In response to the Sonar comments, He's the Batman! Bats see by sonar... how is that silly? Personally I though they could have handled the whole glowing eye bit better, every other time in the movie you see his eyes painted black, yet when his sonar is activated he magically get glowy eyes! Yea, if that had included a better explanation or even just a gadget instead of his eyes glowing out of nowhere, it would have been better.

I liked the whole sonar thing. It was pretty easy to follow. As far as the glowing eyes, they were lenses of some sort that received the sonar readings. You hear them slide in front of his eyes and then click into place.

the white sonar things made him look like the cartoons. you know white eyes no pupil. i thought that was kind of cool

I just saw the movie again tonight for the second time and some things really stood out more in the second viewing than in the first.

1) Return of Scarecrow - I was indifferent the first time I viewed the movie but actually felt it made sense the second time I saw it. It was basically a quick and easy way for Nolan to show that Batman was still working on cleaning up the mess from Begins - and showing his dedication to hunt down the Scarecrow.

2) Hong Kong Scene / Sky Hook - Another way great way of showing his dedication (insanity?) to the length at which he would go to establish justice. Side note, History Channel had a great documentary about a year ago regarding the sky hook. It was used primarily during the Vietnam War to pull spooks out of the jungles of Laos where the American government was not suppose to be operating.

3) Luscious' comment showing Batman the new armor - "It will protect you from cats." Possible foreshadowing maybe?

4) I was a bit disapointed that they really didn't introduce the villian for the third film here - I am glad its not Two Face as I really don't think there is much depth to the character once he has turned into Two Face - I'm not sure there really was enough to work with for an entire third movie. It would have been interesting in some sense to offer a contrast to the Joker's schizophrenia with a more calculating villian rising behind the scenes and organizing the remaining mob as the Joker self destructs, etc.

5) Seems they are following a classical literature approach of a three act play. Act 1 - Introduction, Act 2 - Downfall (TDK - End discussion of taking the blame and being hunted), Act 3 - Redemption. Question is, how can they work in the villian? I'm not a big fan of the Penguin but they could have easily worked him into the focus on the mob in this one - just made him a normal gangster, not a deformed freak like Burtons.

I agree that the sonar thing was a little silly. It didn't take away from the movie for me, but I thought it was a little far-fetched. I know it's a comic book movie, but these Batman's have been more of a real world comic. The characters are more human and the ways they go about their business is more realistic. The sonar was a little too cartoonish to me. Again, it didn't really take away from the movie for me. It just didn't add to it.

I think Heath Ledger's joker may be one of the best villains I've ever seen. Not only for the acting. It was very well written. We see him as a troubled man and not just an evil monster. For a guy who claims he doesn't plan his little games were very clever.

I had no problem with Two Face. I thought I would, but he fit in very well with the story. Like the joker, we see him as a troubled human being and not just an evil monster. We see him as a good guy first. I think that makes him more intriguing as a villain. He also represents a victory for the joker, which is why I think he was an important part of the story.

All in all I thought it was done very well. The action and visuals were great. The acting was great. And most importantly, the story was great. I agree with Colin's review that it wasn't a masterpiece and could have been more, but it was close. I believe Heath Ledger will get a nomination. I believe Aaron Ekchart was also very good. I wonder if a movie in this genre would ever be considered for a Best Picture nomination.

Gyllanhaal sucked, but she wasn't even a factor. Holmes sucked in the first one too, honestly, there should not be a female lead in these (Nolan) Batmans.

I'm pissed on Harvey's death, and even more pissed with myself because I agree with the decision in the grand scheme of things. Harvey's Death, makes Two-Face more of a tragedy, and come on, an entire film (Batman 3) with HIM as the villain would have RULED from a .'s standpoint, but hearing the same "Harvey you're good, come back," and "Shut up Batman, flip a coin you die" dialogue throughout an entire film as Two-Face headed up the Villain rampage_STOP WITH THE ELLIPSES_would get boring. (Like my run-on sentences)

Anyway, I see the Riddler, unfortunately, being the only Bat Villain left to work in a Nolan film. So expect him. Killer Croc will never work onscreen, and lower class criminals like Black Mask, and Scarface, would be pointless. I'm not sure Victor Freeze could ever work in a Nolan film either.

We now have both Johathan Crane (Scarecrow) as well as the Joker in Arkham. But anyone other than Ledger trying the role would make me vomit now. They may be able to CG his face in a scene or two, but you can't CG that acting, and mark my words, he will get an (honorary) Oscar in the next Academy Awards.

Heath Ledger was brilliant, this was the role he was meant to play and Damn him for killing himself. (intential or not, he did people, he did.) He was, for lack of a better word, perfect as The Joker.

Well, that's my little opinion, and that's all it is.

Bring on Batman 3 (2011?)

I beleive that this is a movie that cqn't be argued with... the highest rated movie ever is The Godfather which is a gangster movie. Why can't a better movie have gangsters and also, Batman has always fought gangsters, Gotham has always been a city with gangs.

Heath Ledger shows the single best proformance in the film industry's exsistance

I really agree with Jim, that was prolly one of the more thoughtful posts I've ever read on any forums.

I loved the movie, it was great, Gary Oldman is just an incredible actor and couldn't be happier that he is Commish Gordon.

Heath Ledger hands down deserves atleast a nomination, I know the Academy won't give it to him bc it wouldn't be happy to have a dead guy win an oscar, which sucks bc it shows you that the Academy doesn't actually judge unbias.

I pray to the film gods, that whatever happens over at Warner Bros., that they make sure they get Nolan back for a third film or no film at all. The next movie will be the third and we all remembered what happened the last time with Batman at the third film. I say let's not repeat history.

I hope they do the Penguin in the third film, have a guy with a long nose, fat belly, wearing a tux. Make him a new crime lord in Gotham, I like the Riddler but in Nolan's world I could only see the Riddler like something out of "Seven" where its more of a mystery.

"Heath Ledger shows the single best proformance in the film industry's exsistance"

I don'tknow about that. I'd say he was one of the best villains. Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lector is probably still tops. Ledger's joker may be second. Kevin Spacey was a great villain in Seven but I think Ledger is a tad better here.

First off, Jim, thank you for such an intelligent post. Secondly, thank you people who get the sonar bit. Seriously, bats use sonar. The premise was explained very early on and modified for the situation, making it both practical and believable, and almost animalistic, like the visuals people had of Batman in "Begins" when they were on the hallucinogen. I think someone also mentioned the eye screens lowering on the mask to produce the white lights resembling the animated series. Brilliant, IMHO. It's explainable technology but the visual transcends that. It's realistic but retains the spirit of the comic. That attention to detail is my favorite thing about Nolan's style.

Also, the greater point behind it is the Big Brother mentality, with Batman's omnipotent ability to track everyone and everything. That ability is yet another thing that walks the tightrope of hero/villain, and Batman's use of it, however necessary considering the circumstances, made me nervous until he detonated it after the Joker was taken into custody. It seems to me that every plot device Nolan uses has a symbolic undercurrent, that whisper of a morality tale that makes you wonder "Would I make that choice? Could that be me?" I love how it makes you think beyond the scope of the movie and characters.

I'm not entirely convinced Two-Face is dead. Batman just said to Gordon that he wanted Dent's role in the matter covered up and he would take the fall. Even the funeral/memorial doesn't indicate he's dead. The Two-Face storyline had to be fleshed out (pardon the pun) to give Batman a reason to go into hiding, like Brian mentioned with the classical literature approach. In that sense, Two-Face was a means to an end for Batman, at least in this chapter of the Nolan universe. The whole "die a hero, live long enough to become the villain" thing was brilliantly twisted: Dent "died" the hero, Batman lived, on the run, as the villain. I think Two-Face's character was handled well.

To me, the scene with Joker and Two-Face in the hospital was easy to follow. The transition was that Two-Face had flipped the Joker's coin but the "live or die" hadn't been revealed. Well, when the Joker walks out to use hand sanitizer you pretty much know the result of the coin toss.

Brian - can I just say that I totally missed the foreshadowing about the cats? That's a kick ass observation. And thank you for the history on Sky Hook. I really wonder, despite that we think some things are "hokey", if Nolan doesn't research plausible technology before he writes it. It sure looks that way to me.

I agree that Scarecrow seemed rushed. His presence, while tying in the first movie, was a little random.

I don't really have words for Heath Ledger's Joker. Not any adequate ones, anyway. I literally had a nightmare last night with him in it, so I'd say he accomplished his goal of creating one of the greatest movie villains of all time.

Nolan has already stated that he will not ever reintroduce the Penguin in any of his films, so those of you looking for that, it won't happen. My own bid goes to Harley Quinn, it would be a fairly natural transition from a joker-centric film (though explaining her interaction with the joker, without being able to show it could present a problem). It also resolves the issue of having a major female character without trying to rush Bruce on to a new love interest.

Thanks, spacecataz-- yeah, I followed the events in the hospital scene but just couldn't shake the feeling he and Dent had had a greater dialogue. It's such a great sequence after as Ledger walks out and has trouble exploding things that I thought it was starting to get sloppy editing-wise.

History of villains-- wow, there'd be a lot of contenders there...

Digging your takes on the next possible villain-- my vote is for Catwoman and that's really perceptive of the viewer who caught the cat reference. My favorite (after the Joker) was always the Riddler but that may seem at this point like Nolan's repeating himself.

I think Catwoman could make an appearance in the third film now that Rachel is dead, they need someone to replace her. And I think Harvey is alive also, I liked what whoever said about him being the villain in the third movie to be a more calculating bad guy after the joker's anarchist ways. Plus, he has a personal vendetta against Batman for not saving Rachel, so there's definitely a potential storyline there. I think whoever said they were using Harvey's funeral to make batman take the heat was right.
I'm really hoping the penguin and Mr.Freeze won't be villains. These new batman movies are much more serious than the other ones, and i just wouldn't be able to take them seriously. The Riddler has some potential, as long as they don't do it like they did in Batman Forever. I'm also wondering if there will ever be a Robin in this new batman franchise.. and who would play him.